The following is the transcript of a Telephone Conversation Bob Vernon says he had with Wim Dankbaar about discrepancies related to bullet casings found at the JFK murder site.
Bob Vernon: Wim, what did you send to Remington?
Wim Dankbaar: To Remington?
BV: What did you send, to Remington?
WD: I, I just sent them…em…well, let’s first finish this—okay, because, actually I want to call this program and ask them for some kind of rectification. You know? And hopefully they will, they will do that.
BV: Wim, what did you send to Remington?
WD: Well, I copied you on it, I think.
BV: What did you send to Remington? I didn’t see your original email to them. Did you send Remington the slide I sent you with the two shell casings on it?
WD: Yes, yes…yes… And I said, “Maybe my source has it mixed up”—you know, eh—“and the dot should be a slash. Eh, but anyway, I would like to know: can two shell casings—one has a dot and one a slash—still be from 1963?” And then he answered me—I gave you the answer, I think—he answered me, “Em, well, eh, the slash is, eh, from after 1971. And, eh, the dot is from before ’71.” So that’s when I, eh, figured out that the slide was the other way around. And you acknowledged that, that, eh, [phonetically] Paris, eh…made that, eh, that mistake. That’s what I sent, eh, sent them. Or sent this, eh, William Conrad.
BV: As of right now—
BV: As of, as of right now, as we sit here talking right now, this very instance, because you did send Remington that slide—which you were not supposed to do—
BV: —now Remington has issued a written report that all of the…dashes…dashes are before 1971 and dots are after 1971. So, as of right now, you bought two pieces of metal which are worthless and James Files is a hoax…
WD: Well, did they do that on purpose?
BV: Did they do it on purpose?? Oh Wim—we have a—the one firm thing we had out of Remington is that the dot was before ’71 and the dash was after. The man even put it to you in writing…didn’t he?
WD: Well, he said the dash is after 1971.
BV: And here’s what he said five minutes ago: “After reviewing—”
WD: The same guy?
BV: “—after reviewing our archives for prints, we have agreed that the dash between the ‘R’ and ‘P’ has always been a dash. Prior to 1971, the dash was 0.040 inches as was the height of the ‘R’ and ‘P.’ After that, it became 0.020 inches. Our office had been using some old notes from a former employee. The notes are wrong. Sorry for the confusion.”
WD: Who said this?
BV: William Conrad!
WD: So, his initial, eh, his initial, eh, remarks, eh, or his initial, eh, e-mail was wrong.
BV: That’s right.
WD: Because initially he said it was the other way round. You know?
BV: He was very—
WD: [inaudible] before 1971.
BV: He was very clear. He said, “The Remington center-fire ammunition manufactured in Bridgeport, Connecticut, was headstamped with a dot between the ‘R’ and ‘P.’ Remington began moving equipment to the new Lonoke, Arkansas, location in 1970 and completed the move in late 1971. All Remington center-fire ammunition manufactured at Lonoke, Arkansas, will have a dash between the ‘R’ and the ‘P.’ The picture on the right looks like a dash, ’71 or after. The picture on the left is not clear enough to see a dot or a dash.”
WD: Yeah, that’s the e-mail I sent you—
BV: Now what he’s saying—
WD: [inaudible] in 1971.
BV: Now what he’s saying is: no, he was wrong.
WD: Well, you know, if they are lying it can be established they are lying. You know? There are still independent, eh, sources, eh…who can, eh, verify that. How did, how did William Conrad get in touch with you?
BV: Wim, I’ve been talking to Remington since 1993.
WD: Yeah, but this William Conrad, eh—
BV: I sent him an e-mail.
BV: I sent him an e-mail.
WD: An e-mail?
WD: Yeah, but you also got an e-mail from another guy, eh—
BV: [phonetically] Rimshod.
WD: Remington [phonetically] Rayolmodcom, or something like that.
BV: Rimshod. He said the same thing.
WD: Mmm. Well, he said there’s no way of telling, eh, what, eh, shell-casing is from by the dot or the slash. Right?
WD: Do you really think they have been worked on by some of the enemies?
BV: Let me put it to you this way—
BV: I’m going to have to prepare a special piece immediately, and explain to the public everything from ‘A’ to ‘Z’ about the shell-casings—what Zack found, what we found—and end it up with basically “We believe that Remington is complicit in the cover-up of the death of John Kennedy along with the US government.”
BV: Or I’m going to have to announce that James Files is a hoax, and pull the fuckin’ shit off.
WD: Well…why would you do that? You don’t believe that, right?
BV: Well…regardless of what I believe, you have, you have got to stop…sending people e-mails. You, you’ve got to not do anything related to doing any communication with people over what we’ve got here. You’ve got to stop, man. You’ve just got to stop. And Zack agrees with me. Ah, Zack is very upset because this whole issue with Remington is undermining his credibility, Rademacher’s and mine, and has put us in a serious position here where we’re going to have to go up against Remington. And we haven’t wanted to do that. We had Remington locked up. We knew exactly what was what, and yet you sent them that e-mail. And you sent them that—
WD: So, so, so, Remington has changed its story.
BV: That’s exactly right.
BV: That’s exactly right. And they’re going to—
WD: Based on an e-mail that—
BV: From you! Based on an e-mail from you, that should have never been sent to them. Under no condition do we want any pictures of those casings in Remington’s hands. Now they’ve had time to put their story together. Now they’ve had time to talk to their lawyers. Now they’ve had time to do what they’ve done.
BV: It was a very bad decision. It’s not the first bad one you’ve made.
WD: But you have verified that both the shell-casings have, in fact, a dot.
BV: Yeah, and I’m going back in for some more verification today. ‘Cause there’s a couple of things I want to know, and I’m waitin’ on a guy to finish up workin’ on the door on the front of my house. I’m going right back down to that gun-shop and we’re going to do some serious work on those shells.
BV: We’re going to get to the bottom of it, whether they’re brass centers, whether they’re chrome centers, what the fuck they are. Whether those firing pins are the same—I don’t care if I have to pay the guy some money to do the analysis, I want to know and I want to know right fuckin’ now.
WD: Yeah. Well, em, don’t you think we, we’ll be able to prove that the dot was before, eh, 1971—I mean—even if they are lying to us, you know, eh, we should be able to expose the lie.
BV: Yeah, if, if—listen Wim, you’re dealing with DuPont here. You’re dealing with some of the—one of the largest corporations in the world. You’re also dealing with someone who has billions of dollars worth of government contracts. And it’s certainly easy to see, for me, why Remington would be a supporter of war, because, by God, if there’s a war they sell bullets.
BV: So, you know, I’m easy to convince that Remington could be part of the cover-up and they don’t want their good name dragged around and all that shit. That’s fine. I can believe all that shit. There’s only one problem: they’re DuPont and we’re not. And, if they come at us and say, “Wait a minute, the record says this”—you know—I mean it’s real simple—so, I don’t have a choice. I’m going to have to prepare a special piece that shows our communications with Remington, the total confusion that Remington has presented since day one, the changing stories, the different dates of manufacture for the weapon, and now the discrepancies in the marks that identify when the casing was made, when in reality you really can’t tell what the dating is unless you know the ammunition lot which we don’t know. So we really have no way of knowing if Remington is telling us the truth, and from what it appears—because of their changing and conflicting stories over a period of ten years—it appears that Remington is part of the cover-up.
BV: And that’s the only thing we can say… But what it’s gonna do is it’s gonna totally—now, now there are going to be people coming at us and saying, “Not only did the FBI say that Files wasn’t credible, now Remington is saying, ‘you boys know that the shells aren’t right. You guys are a hoax.’” We’re gonna start getting that like you won’t believe. Now you watch. Now the only people that know what I’m telling you is our lawyer, Zack, and you and me. I guarantee you within the next 72 hours what we’re talking about right now will be on the Internet. And it won’t come from any of us.
WD: Uh huh.
BV: Unless you put it out.
WD: No, I won’t put it out.
BV: We’ve got a real problem, Wim. We got a real, honest-to-God, sincere problem. And it’s, and it’s, serious enough to undestand that all of us—every fuckin’ one of us, all of my people, all of your people, you, Zack, everybody, Don Ervin, Tim, all of us—we may lose every fuckin’ thing we’ve got in this thing, because of this one event with Remington. And you better take what I’m saying seriously, because I’m being very, very sincere with you. This is going to be a hard one to beat, but we’re going to do our best to do it.
BV: Zack and I will put together a strategy and we’ll work it from there. I’m not going to bother Zack for a few days, and I’m not gonna work on anything else for a few days except figure this out. Just, just stop emailing people. Stop doing stuff, Wim. Just stop man, please.
WD: Okay okay okay.
BV: Just stop. I mean, God damn, don’t make me tell you in writing, please. I don’t have the time.
WD: No no no no. I understand you, but again—
BV: The Marshall Caifano letter—
WD: The second shell casing may be important. Between the two—between our team, you know, I think we established it was important.
WD: They are both from before 1971.
BV: Wim, the letter to Teddy Kennedy was out of line, the letter to Marshall Caifano’s son was out of line, and the thing to Remington was out of line. You’ve got to stop brother. You’ve got to stop. Please. You, you, you’re destroying Zack. I mean, he’s just livid about all this. Don’t take my word, ask him. He told me, he said, “I am going to tell Wim he’s got to cease and desist. He’s got to. He’s destroying my credibility.” You really got to listen to what we’re telling you brother. We’re not your enemy.
WD: No no, of course not. I realize that.
BV: You’ve just got to stop. We’re about to lose this whole motherfucker, and I mean it could happen in a flash, Wim.
WD: Yeah. Yeah.
BV: So just sit back, man, and relax.
WD: Yeah. Well, you know I’m getting majorly, eh, frustrated with the lack of media coverage.
BV: Well, we’re handling that. Wim I got some people at the door, let me get back to you.
WD: Yes, okay.
This phone conversation is referenced in Bob Vernon’s Letter RE: WIM DANKBAAR buying the rights to James Files Story